LU Moment: Deaf Studies, Deaf Education at LU

Podcast: S8 Ep. 6
Date: March 20, 2025
Title: Deaf Studies, Deaf Education at LU 
Host: John Rollins

(0:00-0:07) Welcome to the LU Moment, where we showcase all the great things happening with Lamar University faculty, staff, students, and alumni.

(0:08-0:16) I’m John Rollins, associate director of community relations and public affairs here at LU, and I want to welcome you all to this week’s show.

(0:17-0:25) John Rollins: Today we’re going to shine a light on the Department of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education within the Lamar University College of Fine Arts and Communication.

(0:26-0:30) I’m sitting down with Dr. Diane Clark and Dr. Doug Williams to hear more about the department.

(0:31-0:34) Diane and Doug, thank you for joining me today on the LU Moment, and welcome to the show.

(0:35-0:36) Dr. Clark/Dr. Williams: Thank you. Thank you very much.

(0:37-0:45) John Rollins: So let’s start with an easy one, and whoever wants to answer this, that’s perfectly fine with me. What is a high-level explanation fo the Department of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education?

(0:46-0:55) Dr. Clark: Our department is a very interesting department because we are from a BA in ASL all the way through to a doctorate degree in Deaf studies and Deaf ed.

(0:56-1:11) Outside Gallaudet, we are the only place that has that kind of a breadth of things, so it gives us a lot of flexibility in how we recruit and how we educate people. It gives us a lot of – actually it gives us a lot of press at different conferences because we have everything.

(1:11-1:13) John Rollins: Well it sets Lamar apart for sure.

(1:13-1:14) Dr. Clark: It certainly does.

(1:14-1:23) John Rollins: Something that I found when I was kind of doing my research is we are one of very few that offer a doctorate in this particular program.

(1:24-1:29) Dr. Clark: At one point, we were the only one because Gallaudet closed theirs, but they reopened theirs online.

(1:29-1:30) John Rollins: Okay.

(1:30-1:44) Dr. Clark: So, ours is a hybrid. We’re the only hybrid one. We’re the only one who has some face-to-face time. But Gallaudet opened theirs about five years ago again, so it was closed for about seven or eight years. Now they’re back up and running.

(1:45-1:50) John Rollins: Anything you want to throw in Doug to kind of piggyback off of that? High level, what goes on in y’all’s department.

(1:50-2:03) Dr. Williams: Dr. Clark pretty well covered it all. Speaking from my own experiences, as both a faculty member and a former student in the department, the experiences that I had and continue to have are unique.

(2:03-2:18) We have a high level of collaborations between hearing and deaf students, hearing and deaf researchers, faculty members. That’s pretty difficult to find at the university level, so I’m very fortunate to be in a department that really values that collaborative effort.

(2:18 -2:35) John Rollins: So Dr. Clark, I know you told me you’ve been here for 10 years, and Dr. Williams for four, if I’m correct. So, let’s hear a little bit more about each of you before we kind of continue with our chat. What are your roles here, and what is some of your background? It can be education, it can be where you grew up, what brought you to Lamar, whatever you want to share.

(2:35-3:24) Dr. Clark: Well, it’s interesting. I was at Gallaudet for 13 years, and it was time to do something different. And some colleagues who were wanting to retire from here kept poking me, “You have to come here, you have to come. We want you to be chair.” I'm like, no, no, no, I don't do Texas. I don't do Texas. Just don't do Texas. And so they convinced me to do Texas. So, I think the department has grown in the past 10 years. It's really had more of an emphasis on research and having our students publish and go to conferences so that we're more visible in the research community, within the deaf ed community as well. So those are the kinds of things that I really remember, that when I first came our reputation just really grew and flourished, and it's been amazing 10 year growth. So, I'm really proud of the department, and I brag on it a lot.

(3:25-3:26) John Rollins: So Doug, let’s here a little bit more about you.

(3:26 – 4:35) Dr. Williams: Sure. If you ask me where I'm from, where I've lived, that's gonna take quite a while. I started out, was born in Maryland, eventually moved to Missouri. You know, parents divorced and whatnot. But what brought me to Lamar, I was debating between two doctoral programs, in particular focusing on research, you know, with deaf education and what have you. And I decided to come to Lamar because of their hybrid program, that was half of it, and the other half was Dr Clark. For those of us in the field, we know there's a very small pool of researchers that continue to publish. They do it frequently and they do very good work, and Dr Clark is rather prominent in our field. So, when I saw that she was the chair, I was like, “Well, I guess that's where I'm going.”

(4:24-4:25) John Rollins: Decision made.

(4:26 – 4:36) Dr. Williams: Exactly, and so I've been here ever since. Started out as a student and then was hired on as a full-time instructor, and then now faculty member.

(4:36-5:04) John Rollins: We're glad that brought you here, and we're glad Dr. Clark ended up here to have you both with us. So, let's get into some of the specifics of your department. I know it's a bilingual department where the language used is American Sign Language. We know that. So, something I noticed when I was there last week, we were shooting with KFDM News, which I can't wait to see that segment when it comes out. The ASL lab, it says, “Leave your voice at the door,” and is that kind of an office-wide approach that you all take?

(5:04-5:48) Dr. Clark: So obviously, Doug and I are both hearing, and if we want to talk, we shut the door so that you don't want to…If you're having just casual conversation and a deaf person walks by, they need access to that conversation, so that there are four hearing and four deaf people in the department. Plus, we have deaf students and a deaf secretary, and so the policy in the department is, “If you're going to talk, shut your door, because we want everyone to have access to everything that's going on.” That's a very big issue with deaf people. It's called Dinner Table Syndrome, whereas they're sitting at dinner with their hearing family and “What, what, what?” … “I'll tell you later.” So, we try to avoid any of that kind of blockage in terms of communication within the department.

(5:48-5:53) John Rollins: That does happen a lot, like you're saying, “I'll tell you later,” but you're saying, “I'm including you now. You're part of this.”

(5:53 – 6:07) Dr. Clark: Right and that, that is the philosophy. It's a deaf - centric philosophy that the language of the department is simply ASL, just accept that and move forward. We don't hire anybody who can't function at that level in the department.

(6:07-6:28) John Rollins: Yeah, that's important, very important, and you know, Dr. Williams, you mentioned in an email to me that the department strives to maintain a balanced demographic between hearing and deaf scholars. So, how would you say that balance contributes to the overall outcome in your department, or the commitment that y'all have to, you know, include everybody?

(6:28 – 7:45) Dr. Williams: That's an excellent question. It's valid question. In keeping that balance, you get a balanced perspective. When it comes to, for example, I teach primarily interpreting courses, and so when it comes to interpreting, how to provide the best possible interpretation, promoting equal access, how to know your role as the interpreter, how to navigate any and all circumstances that may arise, foreseen or not, it's always nice to have the perspective of those individuals that use interpreting services frequently, ergo, deaf individuals. So having that balance in the department, it's really nice. It's been quite beneficial. I can't tell you how many times I've been in class, and some of the students will ask me a question, and I go, “Hold that thought,” and then I run around the corner to somebody else's class. You know, one of my deaf faculty colleagues, I'll run around, I kind of sneak in and ask that question, you know, and then they answer it, and I come back, and I report back. So, I mean, it's really great. And I think that, you know, the faculty members, they also really appreciate that, because it shows that I recognize the value in your perspective, your experience, your knowledge, your expertise, and I want to share in that, if you're willing.

(7:45-8:07) John Rollins: That’s a great answer for sure. So, something else you know, could y'all explain, or maybe let the listeners know, what kind of partnerships do you have in the local community? Because I feel like I've maybe heard of some through community theater and things like that. Does the department itself partner, or do they just kind of reach out to individuals for that type of thing?

(8:07-9:09) Dr. Clark: It's interesting. We've been doing some interpreting at theaters both on campus and downtown. So, sometimes they ask us to come and then one of the faculty will mentor the students and how to do that. That's one relationship that we have. Another one, we partner with the deaf community for Deaf Night Out, so that our students have access to live deaf people, real deaf people in the community, so that they can practice their ASL skills. So, we always do that. We're trying to reach out to the schools. If I could do that, I would really feel good. It's been – they’re busy, and so it's hard to really find time to really collaborate with them, but we recently did on a project with their babies, evaluating their baby's language access. So, we're starting to develop that relationship as well. Deaf people have to give back to the community. It's just part of their own need. They can't just take from the community. They have to give back and support it. So that's one of the things that we try to do in the department.

(9:09 – 9:20) John Rollins: That's great. and I feel like y'all are helping fill a gap. Bringing those resources together and letting them know, like you said, connecting them to real members of the community. I think that's huge.

(9:20-9:34) Dr. Clark: Yeah, the students are sometimes a little hesitant at first, especially when they're not really skilled. They're only one or the first or second level, but they get used to it, and the community has been really welcoming to us. They've been wonderful.

(9:34-9:43) John Rollins: So, you know, something I believe y'all are celebrating 50 years. Do we want to talk about that? That's half a century. I mean, that's pretty amazing.

(9:43-10:46) Dr. Clark: Yep, it's interesting. This department, like many Deaf Studies, Deaf Ed departments started in communications disorders, so our Speech and Hearing and Deaf Studies, Deaf Ed all started together as one department. They had several audiologists who really felt that deaf kids should have signed, which is not typical. So, they hired some people who were deaf people who signed, and then that's how the two departments started. But initially, 50 years ago, they had one degree, and you took courses in both, and then as we grew, each department grew past 50 years, they needed more space. So, we moved over to the Communications building, so they had more space for their lab. The two started together. Some of my faculty say that we got divorced because when I first came 10 years ago, we just had moved, and they were not happy. We got divorced. I'm like, “Well, we grew up and moved out of the house, right?” So that's how I always see it is that both departments were succeeding and growing, and that we needed more space for both.

(10:46-10:58) John Rollins: So, your department is essentially addressing also a national and international shortage of educators who are trained to work with deaf people. So how important is this for our university?

(10:58 – 11:07) Dr. Clark: Deaf Ed is really in serious trouble. There used to be 66 deaf ed programs around the country, and I think we're down to 15.

(11:07-11:08) John Rollins: Oh my goodness.

(11:08-12:03) Dr. Clark: The numbers just aren't there, so universities are closing the programs. We're still pretty strong here, and the university has been supportive of us. One thing that we have done, which is very unique, is we've partnered with Texas School for the Deaf, so our masters in Deaf Ed, and when it's face to face, is offered on their campus, which is really exciting. So, they're teachers who are not yet certified, because often they hire teachers who are not certified, and they come to our program, take the courses and get the certification through Texas. So that's a program that has gone on for, oh man, I think six years now. It's doing very well. So, that's one thing that we've done that most people have not been able to do, not just placing their student teachers there, but actually really collaborating with the school. Our courses start for one full week in the summer there, and they let us live in the dorm, so it’s very helpful. So, we have a nice collaboration with Texas.

(12:03-12:04) John Rollins: That's great.

(12:04-12:59) Dr. Clark: Yeah, and I think, and this is my opinion, and I will clearly state it's my opinion, and there are others who would probably disagree with me, but the new research shows that kids need sign language. They can have cochlear implants, they can have hearing technologies, all of that's fine, but they need sign language early on, and so having that bilingual philosophy, we can really put out teachers who have more experience in what little deaf kids need, and I think that that's something that I learned at Gallaudet. You have to have sign. When I used to stand in my window at Gallaudet and look out at the campus… they're just students. They're not deaf students. Yeah, they're students. They're students right here, they're deaf students. So, we try to make them feel welcome in our department, because they're again, they're just students, yeah? So that's really important to me, and in terms of Deaf Ed, the more we can turn out, the better I think the outcomes will be for young, deaf kids.

(12:59-13:22) John Rollins: Yeah, well said. So Doug, let's wrap up with you. You know, as as a faculty member in the department, if you have individuals listening who might be interested in joining or maybe they're, you know, pursuing a degree in this right now, what would you share with them? And then also, how can folks stay in touch with y'all or find out more about the program and maybe sign up to be a future student.

(13:22-15:28) Dr. Williams: I appreciate you asking. I'm going to start with my role again, as someone who focuses primarily in training students to become sign language interpreters and going back to the previous topic that we were talking about earlier, you know, trying to have those community outreach opportunities and what have you. I'm always, always, always looking for ways to get my students out and doing the things right, that's what I say to them, like, you’ve got to do the things, you know. But getting them out there in the community, getting beyond the classroom. When they're in the classroom, they get comfortable. You need to get out there. Because if this is what you want to do out there. And I make that a very broad statement out there, that's your office. That's where you're going to work. These are the people that you are going to serve, hearing and deaf alike, obviously. So, if there's ever any organization, company, small business, large business, whatever, if there's ever anything that's going on in the in the community, and you would like to host some of the students. Have them come. It could be one, it could be all the students, whatever. That would be spectacular. So, if anybody is willing to have them come along, please, by all means, feel free to reach out at any point. As far as you know, individuals looking to enter the field of Deaf Ed, Deaf Studies, what have you. Any of us in the department, we're all very enthusiastic about what we do, which is a good thing. We're very we're very pro-accessibility. We want to ensure that everyone, Deaf and hearing, that everyone has access to information, to education, to quality education, and to being seen as, you know, as equal valid contributors to society. So, if there's anything that you are curious about, that you have questions on whatever, or if you just want a little more information. You're not quite sure what, what we're all about. Any of us in the department are more than willing to chat with you about it at any point in time, so feel free to reach out.

(15:28-15:39) John Rollins: Fantastic. Alrighty, well, Dr. Clark and Dr. Williams, thank you both for joining today on the show. It's been a pleasure to chat with both of you, and we shared some great information. So, thank you for that.

(15:39-15:40) Dr. Williams: Thank you so very much.

(15:40-15:44) John Rollins: Best wishes for a great 50th year, for the rest of the 50th year, right?

(15:44-15:45) Dr. Clark: Thank you so very much.

(15:45-16:00) John Rollins: Alright folks, that's a wrap on another episode. Be sure to search LU Moment wherever you get your podcasts to keep up with the events, activities, programs and people right here at Lamar University. This is John Rollins, your host. Thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.